know what to do afterward. a lot of people working on the government with the intelligence side of it, and this will unfold rather slowly, but we -- but there are two different pieces and sort of important, because obviously after 9/11, we tend to think terrorism, islam, mastermind conspiracy that killed thousands and thousands of people, because of the successes of counterterrorism effort. safe to say, more like whack-a-mole. individuals who self-radicalize, they too everything in the name of some belief they have. harder to find. good news, easier to catch after somethi something. >> something we've seen in the threats that have emerged. whether the ft. hood shooter who self-radicalized. we have seen attempts, faisal asaad, the would-be times square bomber, the would-be shoe

bomber, or i'm sorry, the underwear bomber, who also failed. not lone wolfs exactly. individuals who are motivated who reach out, get involved, get instruction, but don't have a huge network of support and for instance, the two brothers who we know from law enforcement officials, stuck around, hung around, lingered. easily found afterward. it doesn't seem like they have expertise to be sociopaths and terrorists and horrible individuals, but they didn't -- they didn't have the wherewithal necessarily to get away. >> that kind of terrorism can occur whether it's international or domestic, tim mcveigh, one or two cohorts and not much else. we do think of things as big conspiracies, it sometimes doesn't happen. >> counterterrorism efforts are always developing. evolution of strategy. assuming this went down as we now believe it did, with two brothers acting alone or in

concert with someone else. what adjustments will the law enforcement, counterterrorism community need to make? >> one thing for the american public to suspect, we are a big society with lots of mobility and lots of people coming in and out. there is going to be some level of risk for that, we saw that op monday. but we still had the boston marathon. it begins with our expectations of what kind of safety we have. there is going to be -- we don't know the facts about them. i will reserve judgment. hemming on where they are from, how they got here, what sort of visas, that will be examined and whether there is intel stream. i believe ed davis when he says there was no hint of this before. that is the thing with localized terrorists and criminals, they really don't leave a trail. unlike 9/11 where there was a lot of activity beforehand. that's the consequence of breaking down a formal terrorist

organization. is it becomes harder to find, but not as dangerous as it once was. >> let's bring you back up to speed about exactly what's happening in the city of watertown that city, essentially shut down completely. cars not being allowed in and out of town. are you looking at humvees driving down the street. watertown, massachusetts. deb freyerick on the ground. heightened level of security. beyond watertown, the city of boston, towns near here. everyone told to stay home. businesses told not to open. subways not running, taxis not picking up passengers, trains not coming in and out. live pictures above watertown where law enforcement helicopters are surrounding the area right now. looking down on some kind of situation that has been happening there. this is the culmination of 14

hours of activity last night. they released the pictures of the two suspects from the fun ish line of the boston marathon shootings -- bombings rather, then police chase, manhunt overnight, one of the men killed. the other suspect, the one on the right, in the white hat, on the run right now. manhunt under way, 9,000 plus law enforcement personnel searching for him. boston shut down, watertown, essentially shutdown, as they search for this young man. 19-year-old from chechnya. we talked to a high school classmate of his a short time ago, a normal kid. would have never suspected a kid like this would be capable of something like this. in fact, he said he assume he must have influenced by someone else to perform such an action and juliette kayyem, still with me, these brothers have been here for a number of years, at

least a couple of years we're told. more or less likely they were influenced or had direct contact prosecu from abroad? >> you can't know at this stage it just really depends on why they did this, what their motivation was. we'll look at the travel records, we'll see -- government will see where they have been. they could have been here, self-radicalized for whatever reason, been sociopaths and happened to be chechnyan, that happens, and attack the -- the boston marathon. i think it really is too early to tell. what viewers need to know is the fact that they are from chechnya is not a motivation. it is merely a fact about their biography right now. >> the scope of the terror attacks that began on monday, only crowing. three killed on monday, more than 170 injured. overnight, another victim. an m.i.t. campus police officer and a transit officer was

wounded in this police chase as well. very dramatic turned events overnight, still developing at the moment. can i get a sense of where we are headed? continuing coverage of the developments as they go on here in boston and the surrounding area continues right here on cnn with chris cuomo. stay with us. >> jake and i are here monitoring the situation. part of cnn continuing coverage. just joining in right now, a major development in the investigation here. local police and federal authorities working in the combined effort, believe they are chasing one of two suspects responsible for attacks here at the boston marathon. first suspect killed as a result of a car chase, a 26-year-old. his brother, 19 years old. chasing him through parts of boston. city wide alert. two reasons for this. one, urban environments are used

to the advantage of the suspect. less options they have to runaround, better it is and also for public safety. also, during the initial car chase, the brothers showed an ability to bring in a hostage and that is at issue also. and we'll take a look at a live picture. what do we have going on? tell me again, control room? what do you want me to go to? okay, elizabeth cohen reports that the fbi is coming out of the suspect's home right now. pretexturaly we have to figure out what that means? elizabeth, can you hear me? what's going on right now? >> i sure can hear you. a dozen fbi agents with rifles just came out of 410 norfolk street, the address of the man they are looking for. they had assault rifles. they did not have anyone with them. they have widened this crime scene area, it was a lot smaller literally five minutes ago. pushed back all the media,

pushed back all the residents and really about a half an hour or so ago, evacuating residents, som some coming out with their pajamas. a dozen fbi agents came out of 410 norfolk street where the suspect lived. back to you. >> elizabeth. thank you. stay in the loop with us. something to keep in mind at home. a lot of excitement when something like this is going on. a lot of random activity. no way to know what is important and what is not. the nature of continuous coverage, we'll tale you what we learn as we learn it. do not read into it. the ethnicity of the two suspects irrelevant at this time. that's what we're hearing from the joint task force. one suspect killed by authorities in a hot pursuit situation, and i know you've been covering this all morning, jake and hearing all the details as they come through, my

understanding is that a concern for the safety now, they asked for certain preventative measures when they think they are close to the second suspect because they learned during the hot pursuit. they had explosives on them, willing to use them. >> it all started at 10:20 when there was a situation at the campus of m.i.t., massachusetts institute of technology and campus police officer was killed by these two suspects. these two brothers. one 19 years old. one 26. a carjacking, they stole a car. that individual whose car it was, was kept with them. h miraculously was let free. they identified themselves as the boston marathon mom bombers in the car. that man escaped. in the police pursuit of these individuals, there was a shoot-out. older brother, 26 years old, mortally wounded, taken to beth israel hospital. there he was pronounced dead.

the doctors there said he had wounds both from burns, from explosives and bullet wounds. wouldn't say which was fatal. >> key distinction. they don't know when he got the burns. from the altercation from police or because he was, in fact, connected to the attack at the marathon. >> we have also heard in the pursuit two of the brothers, the younger brother, 19-year-old, ran over his older brother according to one source. we should caution everybody, this is all early, developing information as we've learned. the first stories we hear, even from law enforcement, are not accura accurate ones. the older brother is dead. the younger brother, 19 years old, dzhokhar, the 19-year-old on the loose. >> deb is monitoring one area of the police activity. you say you have an update. what to you have? >> yeah, we do.

a number of the vehicles just pulled out. we hear one of the canine dogs barking. the dogs usually alert when there is presence of explosives. we know both of these individuals have explosives. one of them, the older one, the 26-year-old, had explosives on him. we are told did detonate. likely what killed him. run over by a car possibly. there was explosion and wearing those explosives on him. investigators found the presence of a trigger. a trigger connected to those explosives when they ripped the clothing off. >> we need to cut away from deb. go to a press conference where the uncle of the two boys, the 19-year-old and 26-year-old is now speaking. >> >>. >> where are the boys from? where did they grow up.

>> in kyrgstan. >> how long have they been in the united states? >> eight years. i think i'm ten years here and they came after me. after two years. >> what were the boys doing in boston? what did they do for a living? >> yesterday he called me and said -- i didn't know. i'm talking from morning for all of this. not talking a long time ago, maybe two years, three years. he had some problem between family. and yesterday he called me and said was it like this, we were not talking together, and each other and to forgive me, and we

will talk today. from now, and we will be together. >> is this twas told to you by your sister-in-law, that he was shot? >> yes. when they told me, i said did you hear anything what they are saying? she was crying and said that tamerlan was killed. >> learn what? >> that your nephew had been found? >> maybe i don't know. maybe one hour ago in talking on the phone with everybody. >> it's hard for you. >> i'm sorry he did this. it's so crazy. it's not possible. i can't believe it. when i heard this on tv news, i was thinking how can it be like

this? it's crazy. unbelievable. >> and where does your other brother live? >> let's go with me. you want to go there? >> okay. >> drive after me and you will see it. >> can you wait just a minute and i'll get my notepad so i can write down the address? >> sure. 5 brock court, 20886. right now i'm going there. >> okay. okay. >> we're very sorry. >> we have been listening to that out of maryland. >> a press conference with the man who is said to be the uncle. >> ruslan tsarni.

uncle of the tsavraev brothers. the older one, tamerlan, killed in a shoot-out. and dzhokhar, still wanted. an sbns mintense manhunt. the city is in lockdown. cabs canceled, buses canceled, air space over the city of boston shut down, an intense manhunt for the 19-year-old, a suspect in the boston marathon terrorist attack. >> a big part for the reason of the lockdown, they believe the brothers had explosives with them and worried about there being more casualties. the other, to not give opportunities for evasion. something very important, the uncle just said. i believe, difficult to understand him, i believe he said he had spoken to one of his nephews and they had asked him for forgiveness. he was upset and said this is an

unforgivable act. but more connection between these suspects and believed by authorities that there are other people they are looking for. >> does it raise the question -- a conspiracy network, if there is a terrorism cell. the two brothers related and the call to the uncle, who at this point says he was horrified by this. may indicate that they didn't have a lot of other coordination, in addition to what we were talking about. when they were desperate last night, trying to get money. didn't seem to have access to that. from very basic things that we're emphasizing again and again and again. we are finding out minute by minty as things change. >> if you have a plan, it doesn't involve robbing a convenience store. it involves an escape if there is a wider network of support. plans change. maybe they weren't expected to be identified. all we know is that the authorities believe they have

killed one of their main suspects from the photos and videos they sent out yesterday and the second one, they are quickly pursuing right now, able to evade them, and they are worried he may have explosive devices on him and they allows for a slowdown. >> if we can show the picture of a wanted man, dzhokhar. we have been looking at pictures of both, tamerlan now dead. this is dzhokhar, 19-year-old dzokhar tsavraev. if you see this individual, notify individuals as soon as possible. early this morning, we were told a lockdown in waterdown, eight miles outside of boston, that was soon expanded to some of the surrounding areas, waltham, cambridge, other places outside. >> okay. >> i'm sorry, chris. >> two things, first of all, the reason we're not showing live

picture of the pursuit, we've been asked by authorities not to. not to give tactical locations, because the suspect or someone helping him could see it. second, we want to go to eric matado, eric, do i have you? eric, can you hear me? all right. we're trying to get a man named eric matado on the phone. he is a friend of the suspect. >> we interviewed him earlier today. >> he is back on the phone yet? okay. >> yes. >> all right. eric, can you hear me? >> yes, i can. >> okay, obviously the big question, whether or not your friend is who authorities believe him to be. anything about him? i know a lot of this you have answered already. to bring current viewers up to date, anything you can tell us about your friend that would have indicated this type of darkness, this type of other activity?

not that i can think of, no. he was active in sport activities, wrestling, a good friend of ours, he just -- partying, things of that nature. things that kids do. drinking and things, and at those moments, just filled with joy and happiness, so i mean, no, i can't say there was anything that led me to believe he was -- could -- could do these things, no, i don't think so. >> were you in contact with him on the day of the marathon, days before? when is the last time you talked to him? >> last time i talked to him, i mean, probably somewhere in the time frame of, you know, a year or two ago. when he was more or less in contact with friends of mine in my circle, and he actually came to new york with a couple friends of ours to go visit some

other friends up at university. so he was always around and kind of, you know, hanging out. but, i wasn't really in contact with him as of late. >> all right. you haven't been in contact with him a year or two, but fwhoou him, he was a normal high school kid, doing normal high school things. >> yes. >> thank you for the information. appreciate it, eric. >> no problem. >> interesting about that, doing normal teen auj things. very different than the preliminary picture we have so far of the brother's presence on social media. they didn't have friends, they only had each other. >> what eric said earlier, he was stunned by all of this, that

dzhokhar seemed like a normal kid. hadn't seen him in quite some time. he had -- he believed somebody had to have led dzhokhar, 19, into this life. his older brother, now dead, seven years older than him. eric didn't even know dzhokhar had an older brother. we are piecing together bits he had. >> partying, drinking. we're taking that normal. not normal for a devout muslim. restrictions on that behavior. what does that tell you? the idea if islamic extremist. no reason to believe that with this kid. >> something could happen in that two-year time frame. >> tamerlan, the older brother, said he did not spoke, did not drink, so perhaps he was -- although also older, he had led a more austere life than his younger brother. >> look, once this kid is brought into custody and hopefully that's what happens with the suspect, although there

is a lot of bloodlust in these types of situations, people have vengeance on their minds, you lose your corridor to understand everything happened here. assuming have you interest in the fairness of justice as the american system relates to. >> this has never happened before. we can understand there are more -- is there something that could happen again. >> attempts have happened before. >> and attempts at several radicalized individuals have attempted to bomb things, faisal assad. >> he had attended a camp, spend a little bit of time, but motivations were personal. >> hasan, the ft. hood shooter,

he had personal motives. >> these individuals identify with other groups, identify with motives, but don't necessarily belong to the organization. brooke baldbaldwin, one of our reporters covering the situation, do you have new information? >> i think have you someone come to me, if you are on me, let me set the scene. i'm on cambridge. we're across town. have you seen the hustle and bustle, police activity in watertown. we have seen a lot of activity in cambridge. if i could get you to go straight in on the crime scene tape just a block away from where i'm standing. hook a right down that road. more folk avenue. that is where the two young suspects -- these two young men apparently lived. i have been here the better part of the last hour, there has been in the last ten minutes i would say, chris, we were all, members of the media, and i have to tell you, dozens of us, all suddenly told by two dozen fbi agents who

said you have to move. we had to move a block and a half away. why, i don't know. but a cambridge police officer kept saying over and over and over, it's not safe. we have moved to a safer location. why they had us move? i don't yet know. that's so far the scene here in cambridge. a city bus right to my right. that is where i've been told that live on the street, they are now being evacuated and will be placed on the bus to get them out of area because it's apparently not safe. chris. >> brooke baldwin. now to deb freyerick, watertown. covering the latest developments, we had images on watertown on delay in case there

was violence not appropriate to be broadcast. what are you learning? >> another reason why on delay and something we were concerned about. you never want to give away positioning, strategy or logistics of an operation. we do know in the last couple of minutes actually, number of people pulled out. there were folks in military fatigues, atf, fbi, caravan of 20 vehicles pulled out. all loaded with people. this area cooling down as people pulled back. we don't know what happened there. trying to get the information. not clear why there was so much activity so quickly. reported earlier, and we smelled smoke. and the helicopter circled

overhead and the person i was speaking with, the one thing we want to emphasize and this is very, very serious, that is nobody knows the context of what these two people were doing and with whom we may have been doing this with? have you two individuals who created a relatively sophisticated device. but it works, the fact that they were able to pull it off. they did it with routine precision. walking through the people of marathon. a lot of training and thought that went into that. the deadman, the man wearing the black hat, a question about him. we are being told about a source, when investigators took him to the hospital for autopsy and forensic analysis, he explosives on him and also had a trigger attached to those -- or as part of those explosives, i should clarify. they found explosives on him and a trigger.

we don't know whether he was killed, and the car chase, we don't know whether it's gunfire, whether he self-detonated by accident. we don't know. we don't know if his younger brother may be equipped with a similar device. that's what law enforcement is so concerned about right now. to isolate these two men, to think they were perhaps acting on their own. premature right now. we don't know who they were interacting with im. all under investigation. scouring website, digital media, social media pages that allegedly belonged to these two young men. again, activity we are told on one of the social media counts. but investigators don't know if the person updating some of the statuses is, in fact, the one they are looking for or an associate. so many different loose ends, we

are so far from being able to tie them up. juliette made a good point. they are from the folks of the russian caucus. we don't know if that is where they became ral callized. we are -- we are seeing things as they develop, as they unfold. we don't yet have the context. a lot of details. a lot of facts, what they mean. we're a ways from understanding that. chris. >> all right. deb, thank you very much for that. let's go to don lemon, another point of coverage we have. police activity in his area. don. >> yeah, a couple of things, chris. in this area where we are, triangular area right here where we have seen police officers on foot, tactical units in cars and if you look in the sky here, a helicopter, the orbits from the helicopter have gotten narrower, narrower, narrower, which would

indicate possibly that they are -- they have honed in on someone or something in the area. been here, happening here for 15, 20 minutes. and deb freyerick said they moved away from her area, they have moved to this area. this little triangular area in watertown, they have moved in. new information. spoke to one of our photographers, spoke with someone who knew both of the suspects, they call them d sfwlnch hokhar and tamperlan. he went to high school with them. the one they are looking for now in the white cap, he is a normal kid. he parties, and quite honestly, sometimes he smokes. you know what that means. and he was raised here. he is just as american as i am. and he was a wrestler, he was in great shape. got a scholarship for wrestling,

speaking of dzhokhar and the older one, tamperlan, a boxer, two time golden globe champion. people wanted him to go pro and boxed in las vegas. we spoke to him a short time ago. listen to what he said about these two men. >> i was pretty shocked. i called my brother. fine. he was our friend we knew from high school. never think anyone like that. ask anyone from my school, would you never think any of these things. not from dzhokhar at least. you will find more information. this guy is a walking angel. a nice kid. >> so, again, he said he was anice kid. golden glove winner. the one who died, tamerlan, a boxer.

pretty normal kids from what he knew. and that there were great kids. and one of the quotes, he said this kid was a walking angel, in his estimation. the person did not want his name to be identified. not seeking media attention, in fact, he didn't want to be on camera, which believes to be he absolutely knew these kids. went to high school with them. cambrid cambridge latin high school, back from 2006 to 2007. older brother graduated 2006 or 2007. younger brother graduated in 2011. and, again, on scholarship for wrestling, the younger brother and by all indications, kept to himself, was quiet, a nice kid. normal teenager until this happened. when we spoke to him, he was here in watertown. come over from cambridge. not sure why, probably because of the activity here. that's the latest information about them. again, the area where we are, right in the triangle here, the police helicopter, honing in on

a particular area. moved a lot of resources into this area. not exactly sure why. the video earlier, tactical units, bomb squad, going into buildings, going door to door with guns drawn and also a chemist checking blood, according to a police officer on the scene. they did find blood in a location, they brought in a chemist to check the blood, take it back to the lab to see if it matches any of the suspects or anything they have on file from the original police scenes this morning. so far, not gotten anything back about that, but, again, watertown, asking people really to shelter in place. shelter in place, lockdown, somewhere in between. do not leave your home. do not open your doors for anyone unless you know it's a police officer, unless you see some sort of identification.

that lockdown, shelter in place, has expanded to the entire city of boston and an unprecedented move. where we are, we see police officers bused in and out. not moved out our particular perimeter, but more resources being brought into the area where we are, guys. >> don, thank you very much. back to you in a second. >> i find it amazing what he's talking about. the few people we've heard from so far. especially younger kids and the older brother. at least for a while, appeared to be "normal," successful. wrestling clip for the younger one, dzhokhar, normal kid, and then something happened. we need to figure out what that something is. they are concerned the younger brother on the run, dzhokhar could have explosives on him. part of the reason they are very uncertain, asking people to stay inside. i want to go to joe johns. joe, they are worried he could have explosives on his person?

>> absolutely. that's the big concern, and that's why we're told -- authorities are be haying the way they are behavioring out there, and why they have asked businesses not to open, shut down the transit system, sending police officers door to door. i want to recap some of the conversations we've had with law enforcement over the last several hours here and they have really described a situation that is quite puzzling involving the suspects, it's full of holes, some of the information is conflicting, but here is the picture we have. we have a picture of events that start late last night, early in the morning, suggesting that the bombing was very carefully planned, but the getaway, just full of holes. for one thing, it seems pretty clear that the suspects did not have any transportation, had to carjack a car and when they got in the car, apparently they told

the proper driver of that car that they were, in fact, the marathon bombers, so that has a real element of amateurism in it for alleged terrorists or criminals, what have you. then we have the issue of a shoot-out that occurs involving these individuals. one individual gets out. he shot the other brother, apparently runs over him, with the carjacked car. so another situation that just seems a little bit implausible and unusual, given the fact that these individuals are brothers. the mother important fact, of course, that we've been told by the authorities, again, as you said. explosives on the suspect who died, leading the law enforcement authorities to be concerned that the suspect who is still out there, actually has explosives on him. back to you.

>> thanks very much, joe. what's amazing, chris, hearing all of this, we've been talking so much about it. when they didn't have the money, that they had to hijack a car. think about that happening and compare that to yesterday, two men, so confident, so cocky so prepared, they had the backpack slung over one shoulder. rehearsed this so many times. but it appears after that, they didn't have a plan. it all fell apart. >> they are pursuing two routes. one, they are connected to other individuals, they want to make sure they contain it. they have been taking people, not under arrest, but having intense interviews with people right now, close to the two suspects. that's one of the reasons so many locations so going on. and understand when are you watching from home, the reason we're not showing the actual activity we have camera access to, authorities have asked us not to. don't want to compromise

tactical positions, that's why we're not doing it. if we can, we'll show you what police are comfortable with. at the end of the day, own curiosity means nothing in terms of the vest division overall. bear with that, that's why you're not getting access would you otherwise much. >> we try to piece together who these men were. i want to bring in a man who hired dzhokhar, the younger brother, as a lifeguard. we want to piece together who these men were. what can you tell us about dzhokhar. >> well, like i was telling the man on the phone, i hired him about 2 1/2 years ago. a very quiet young man. came down with a group from cambridge latin, just completed the lifeguard training program. i like to hire local youth and put them to work in the pool. seemed like a quiet, unassuming

young man. >> and was he a hard worker? when he went through the training, how would you describe his discipline and work ethic? >> describe it as good. showed up on time. watched the water, he rotated from position to position fine. and got along well with the other students and swimmers there at the pool. like i say, i don't know a great deal about him. i know he was one of the group that came down to the pool, quiet young man, and this is very surprising and shocking to see the destruction that he's brought to the city. >> and when you -- over time, was there any change? what you are saying, george, fits with a lot of what we're hearing from other people. quiet, hard working, normal in most respects. and obviously something changed

dramatically. how long did you know him for? >> about 2 1/2 years ago. but i deployed to afghanistan with the army national guard. i did not see him over a year. when i returned to work this august, he was no longer on the staff or the schedule. >> all right. george, thank you very much. i know you feel like you may not know a lot. but you know more than anyone else. we appreciate you taking the time to share us with and all the people around the world who are trying to understand this a little bit more about dzhokhar, the younger brother on the run. >> it does seem from all of the different points of reporting from authorities on the circumstances of the events of the last 20 hours, that these are the two young men they have been looking for and they placed themselves at the scene. let's bring in tom fuentes. tom, assuming these men are the

men that authorities believe them to be what is it shaping up what the purpose is, the chance that they are connected to an organization? what is your feeling? >> they probably weren't dispatched here. they have been in the u.s. a long time. doesn't appear somebody overseas trained them, sent them here on a mission. they were here, trying to assimilate into u.s. society and somehow that didn't quite take. the other thing we don't know. he may have a more dominant personality and may have directed the young kid started out okay. maybe brought him along to do bad things. one of the things we discussed at the time of the marathon, they didn't die, stay, martyr themselves. we have someone detonate two bombs and leave. actually stay around a while to watch the carnage, but then

leave. we thought, well, they are not dedicated to the mission that a martyr would normally be. last night changed everything in that regard. they were not encountered. this isn't as if law enforcement got a lead, went to them and a shoot-out ensued. they initiated this by ambushing the m.i.t. campus police officer. he was sitting in his police car and they provoke the final attack. they may not have been ready to leave boston last monday, but last night, maybe they were ready to leave this world and go out and take police officers and other people with them. and now you still have the younger brother on the loose or maybe he's in some apartment, i'm sure they have different issues that come up all the time, maybe encountering a possible booby trap when they find an abandoned bag or package. that's what strikes me. they started this -- this

particular gun fight, chase, explosive, killing the police officer last night, they started this. >> take a half step back, tom. how does this come together in how this is a big plan? it seems pretty random the last 24 hours. >> what i'm saying, the nirinit attack and maybe they are looking for money because they committed an armed robbery to fundraise. that kits they weren't sent her funded from overseas. there is no indication, at this point, unless it comes up later in the investigation, that they were sent here by a larger organization which is a good indication of why a larger organization did not claim credit. because they weren't aware they were going to do this. so to come to the u.s., in the u.s. several years, radicalize themselves and at some point the

decision is made to go ahead and do the attack at the marathon, but they decide for whatever, they aren't going to kill themselves on that day, and they don't. they do the terrible attack last monday and then they are somewhere holeded up a couple of days, what i'm saying is last night they came out of hiding, they came out of the woodwork, and they initiated the attack with the police. it's not that law enforcement encountered them. they deliberately went afteran officer that had no clue this was coming and ambushed him. >> it certainly appears that way. >> they create td the situation. if you hear anything let us know. >> we want to get to deb freyerick in watertown. what are you seeing? >> a number of the vehicles and law enforcement officers who were here, they are beginning at

least move away from this location, but we are being told that this is a very fast and fluid moving situation. that this is a very, very much ongoing. they still have not located him. they have a sense of where he is. we are being told that they believe he is watching everything that is going on. there is a big concern, law enforcement know he has explosives, he has explosives on him. he is tired, just witnessing his brother being killed or killed himself. not sure if he detonated the device he is wear. very big concern if this guy comes out, he may come out and go down in a blaze of glory, monitoring this, very, very careful as this unfolds. >> thank you very much. i want to go to larry

shaughnessy, cnn producer in maryland. talking to the fbi about the latest on the investigation. larry, do i have you on the phone? >> one quick correction. the fbi here is not speaking to us. i have been speaking to neighbors who live near the house where the uncle of these two suspects apparently lived. and what they are telling us is that there this is a large, extended family, and the people who live in this house are good neighbors, friendly people, nobody is mentioning any kind of indication that there has ever been any talk of trouble or islamic extremism or any kind of extremism, and at one point in time, apparently two young men who would be roughly the same age as the two suspects in boston, lived at this house which is north of washington, d.c. in a single family home suburb. a lot of flowering cherry trees

kind of place. but no one has been able to say that i've seen the pictures of the suspects on tv, i seeing these two boys who lived in the neighborhood and been able to say, yes, they are the same two people. they know the man who lives in this house now has at least two daughters, maybe three, much younger than the suspects in massachusetts and the family appears to be very involved and very effective, swim team, that sort of stuff. i spoke to a young man who said he knew it was good friends with a cousin of what he believes are the two suspects. whose first name was annie. and he said andy is now in the u.s. army, and he doesn't believe that annie would be involved in anything like this at all, but at one point in time, andy had a cousin who went to watkins milk high school, very close to this home, and the

young man, probably the same age as suspect number two, was at the school for a while, but dropped out and he said that they would frequently speak russian in front of him, and never really bothered him and this neighborhood young man said he never heard -- never heard anything from the cousin of andy's that would indicate if he was in any way angry at america or anything like that. but he doesn't know why he dropped out of high school so quickly. and right now, there is media all around, media helicopter flying overhead, most of the networks and local affiliated are here, but there is no indication that the uncle will come out and talk to us and no indication that the fbi and/or the local police will make anyone available to talk to us. it's mostly just a case of waiting and watching.

>> all right. larry, thank you very much. look, these are very big puzzles and we miss more pieces than we get until everything is all done. a few things to take into consideration. one, the police are very concerned, the entire investigation is concerned, tactical positions shouldn't be given away, because they believe the suspect they are pursuing right now, and anyone or may or may not be watching could be helping hum. the greatest help, if the suspect were watching the media, to understand this is the time to surrender. this is the time to do the only thing left that can create some decency, some prospect for a future for this young man. the concern, we heard from one of the experts, are they willing, have they shifted gears? the two young men identified themselves to a hostage as those responsible for the attack. that going with what investigators telling us is why we are being so certain about who these two young men are. explained themselves as that. authorities believe them to be

that. if they changeded gears, what would that mean? we frequent a plan where we didn't want to kill ourselves, just blow up other people, and last night, reckless, confron confrontation confrontational. each may be armed with explosive devices, trying to provoke end to confrontation, so many homes. why rob a convenience store? that's now you start this kind of -- >> it seems like a plan leading in. shown the video again and again. every viewer has seen it. watching down boyleston street, ready to place the bags, confident arc sured. the device rather amateur, crude. but it worked. did practice, run throughs. afterward it seemed if there was a plan, it fell award. desperation seems to have taken over. >> why do you keep having people say they were normal, okay, quiet, and the neighbors didn't see anything, and the uncle is

shocked? people change. that's why. we see it time and time again. the times square bomber, faisal assad, he did very often, as juliette was explaining to us earlier, people have ideas in their own head that change. that could very well be the case with these two young men. we won't know until the second suspect is apprehended. >> that's why they want him alive. find out what happened. what changed. obviously young. what changed? it's so important for law enforcement and everyone in this country to understand. i want to get back to brook baldwin now. >> reporter: yeah, erin, i want to tell you, we're in cambridge. this officer is clearing people everyone farther from norfolk streelt. this officer is now clearing us.

we were much farther down and that was when a crush of f.b.i. agents had us move. this officer is saying it's not safe, it's not safe. so now they're moving people even farther away. this is tori gordon. tori is a freshman and lives one block from norfolk street. you were out this morning. your roommate told you what? >> that the police were searching houses and stay out of the apartment. try to get to the college to be around other people. >> tell me, precisely, how close from norfolk street is your apartment? >> i live a block away from norfolk street. >> so now what, you can't go home. yeah, i'm not really sure. i'm going to try to make my way back into my apartment. i can't get to the college, so. . >> reporter: your plan was, since you can't get home because of the police, get to the college. since it's all blocked off,

there are car after car, local and federal law enforcement here. just quickly, how has this week been for you? you woke up to ten text messages from your family. we're a mile from m.i.t. a police officer was killed last night. >> i'm from a small town in maine and i'm not really used to this stuff at all. it's been pretty shocking. >> reporter: again, erin here in cambridge. just down the street, a block away and to the right is where those two young men apparently lived. we're watching to find out, waiting to find out why we are increasingly moved farther and farther away. certainly, there's a reason, we just don't know yet. >> all right, brook, thank you very much. they don't seem to know -- at least we don't know and they wouldn't reveal for technical reasons if they actually knew where he was. but they are in certain areas, focused very closely to where they lived.

>> obviously, we're always working the phones. that's why there's always a device in our hands. what i'm hearing from investigators is the common link here is explosives. they must have been working with them somewhere, figuring them out, there was a learning curve. so as they're going to different habits of opportunity, they're worried about explosives. they may want a perimeter safety first. they keep saying all the ideas about who are they, where are they? they just want to get this kid into custody as soon as possible. now, to reset, one of the reasons you're not seeing the live bpicture is that authoritis have asked us not to. they have tactical reasons. they believe people around him could be watching. they don't want information given up. i hope he understands this is the last chance to surrender and do something with his life to reset. we know there's a massive man hunt under way for this suspect. he's a 19-year-old.

he was tolled a hostage himself. investigators believe that this is one of two young men they've been looking for. the other one is dead. this is what happened. both brothers are on the run last night. they robbed a convenience store. in the course of that or soon thereafter, a police officer was killed. he was a young man, himself, 26 years old. they wound up getting into a shootout with police. one of the brothers, the older one, 26 years old was killed during that. we believe authorities say that the younger brother, in trying to get away, ran over his own brother. the brother who was killed had an explosive device on him. we're told he also had, when they took him to the hospital where he was pronounced dead, burns on him. we don't know if those burns were from something that happened at the explosive device on the scene or if they are from the same event that he connected

himself to to the hostage which was the attacks on the boston marathon. the second brother, the the younger one, 19 years old, then took off into the air, they say, the investigators. they've been close, but they haven't gotten him. they are worried he has explosives that makes him slow down their pursuit because of the area of danger. dogs have been excited when they've gotten to certain areas, but they usually are when they're going to work. they are closing down parts of the city in an aggressive way for a very specific reason. safety. they don't want this man to use the opportunity of stealing another hostage, steal another car, create more victims. it gives them an easier way to find people when there's less movement around. that's where we are right now. that the boston authorities and federal authorities who are helping out in the investigation are talking to people intensively, having controlled conversations, finding locations where these young men were and trying to get their hands on this younger brother.

>> and we're starting to get, bit-by-bit, a better picture of who these young men were. with the people that we have talked to, known them probably a year ago or two years ago and described, especially the younger brother. quiet, normal. a man who hired him to be a life guard, described his work ethic as showing up to work always on time. a dedicated young man. the older brother, also, has been a boxer. very successful. something then happened. something happened to radicalize them. we don't know if it was some kind of extremism. we don't know if it was expired by something overseas. these are the questions that we emphasize so much so that they get this young man alive. >> we're showing his face for one obvious reason. to help find him. he is somewhere.

there is no intention to glorify this. if he has done what authorities believe he has done and he has admitted to himself, he's the last face you'd want to show people. but they have not found him right now. take a look at the face. if this is someone walking by, do not do anything yourself. please, call authorities. this would only apply to people in boston. that's where they believe he is right now. make the phone call. the authorities keep saying stay in your home. don't drive around. they want to keep people as far away from this situation as possible. there are more things we don't know than what we do. we don't know why this plan went from something that was coordinated to something that was so random and silly to where they wound up throwi ining imp d grenades. we don't understand this. and we won't. >> i can tell you how quickly this happened. last night, while we were on the air, there was a shooting at m.i.t. and we were covering it. no one had any idea that it was

linked to this. this entire thing started snowballing. i want to get to don lemon because, don, we're trying so hard to piece together exactly who these men were and what kinds of people they were. i knew we had an opportunity to speak to another suspect. >> actually, my photojournalist who was with me got to speak to them. also gave us other details about the search that is going on right now. you can probably hear the helicopter that's going overhead in orbit around us. there's still a very heavy police presence and they appear to be honing in on this triangular area, this rectangular area where we are. again, we don't want to give away too much information about that. but, listen, we told you earlier about tamerlan and his friend we spoke to who calls him "sar" because of tsarnaev. they're shortly contracted the last name to make it more americanized.

we're told that tamerlan was a boxer. he had won golden gloefs -- he was a two-times golden gloves champion. and they wanted him to go pro. one of our reporters, ivan watson, who is one of our reporters at cnn international, found some information about him. he said the results on the salt lake city 2009 golden gloves of champions, it looks like tamerlan was a heavyweight in that. he did participate. it appears he was a boxer and, as his friend said who we spoke to, a two-time golden gloves champi champion. the younger brother, the one they're seeking right now in those photographs, was a wrestler. the younger brother is a wrestler. they said he was in great shape. that he also got a scholarship for it that was able to carry him through college from high school when he graduated back in 2011.

here's a friend we spoke to. he did not want to be identified. i think it's important to say he was not seeking media attention. so take a listen. here he is. >> i was pretty shocked. i mean, i called my brother. he was crying, you know. he was like, dude, that's our friend that we knew from high school. i would never think anything like that, you know. it's a complete shock. if you ask anyone from my school, they would tell you the same thing. you would never suspect anything from these guys. not, you know, the least bit, like, you know, not from j dzhokhar, at least. he's as american as anybody. hangs out, goes to parties, smokes a little weed here and there, that type of thing. it's not like he's some foreign dude. he's raised here, he's everything over here. he's just as american as i am or anybody else is. >> reporter: he's the one that

we believe is still on the run? the guy in the white cap? >> yeah, the guy in the white cap. >> reporter: so how long would you -- that's a hard school to get into, right? >> no, it's a high school -- it's the most diverse high school in the united states, second most diverse. highest acceptance rate to harvard. >> reporter: you said they were from where? >> they're from chechnya. they speak russian. >> reporter: so they're from chechnya. how long would you say they've been in the u.s.? they were from there, so -- >> seven years. >> reporter: six or seven years? >> yeah. >> so, again, high school cambridge. those are the pieces that we have been able to put together so far. >> appreciate it, don. thank you. i just got a note from someone close to the investigation.

they could have been putting the photos and video out to the public. these two young men may have felt like the pictures were too good and they got nervous. and they started to do things. and you know what, a loss of life is a terrible thing. but it may well have forced their hand and put them into a situation when just a few days after the attack, they have the men who did it. >> when you talk about that, law enforcement had a really difficult choice to make. two days ago, they were going to impress someone. they were debating what to do. should they be putting this video out? they made a decision to do it. a calculated risk. we're not going to put the names out. they may not have known them at the time. but this is when they thaukt ou the public could help. and it worked. they had to decide what to do. when you think about what was his fate with that decision. but they made the right decision. >> we haven't really dealt with a lot of this. still, we have reporters all over trying to piece it together as it goes along without

revealing too much that the authorities are asking us to stay away from. let's go to brook baldwin, she's got someone who's been evacuated, talking to them now. brook? >> yeah, chris, before i even introduce you to this young couple, let me just tell you that there has been a little bit of activity in the last couple of minutes in cambridge. again, just to set the scene, these two young men, the suspects, live about a block away. we have just seen a big, white van with bomb squad written on the side turning down to norfolk street where these two people had an apartment, apparently. some of the police are trying to clear this road out. you can see -- i don't know if you can see it, there's actually an ambulance in the middle of the road. police out and about here. we're zooming out so you can try to see. in the meantime, i have neil and bridgette scullion and they live just down the street. so you awoke to what?

a knock on the door? >> well, we woke to the news on the television. and then about an hour ago, i guess, the police came and knocked on our door and told us it was time to evacuate. >> can you specifically -- what did the police tell you guys now? >> get out of the house. no, they said we need you to leave your house. that's all they said. >> reporter: and so, in a matter of minutes, you scooped up your dog and this little one and left. do you have any guidance as far as how long you have to be out? what's going on? >> there's been no further information. just that we were to leave and when we walked out of the house, we were asked which way to go and told to come down this way. and you saw, as well, that white bomb squad van. >> well, they came up this street here and it was backing down the other end of norfolk street. >> reporter: i'm going to let you guys go. i'm sorry, little guy, this is not very fun to be kicked out of your little apartment. so we're going to stay here and

hang tight, chris, and see what's going on. see if we see anymore activity with the bomb squad and if any cars start coming through here, which it sounds like they may, come back to us and we'll let you know what we see. >> all right, brooke, thank you very much. . . i want to go to the phone line right now. larry, can you hear me? >> yes, i can. can you hear me? >> all right, larry -- i can hear you very well. thank you for joining us and taking this opportunity. you live near the suspect that's being pursued right now by authorities here. what can you tell us about him? how recently did you speak to him? what's your take? >> caller: well, it's -- it's more than a neighbor. i'm a retired teacher from the high school where he graduated from. and i work part time as a photographer at the high school and i photographed them extensively as a wrestler on the wrestling team, as i do many other kids. and so i got to know him. and there is nothing in his

character, in his demeanor that would suggest anything remotely capable of any of these things that are now he's suspected of doing. i mean, he couldn't have been -- >> larry? larry? >> caller: yes. >> larry, can you hear me? >> let's take a half of step back. given what he's accused of and what he's admitted to himself, he has some character flaws to be gentle about it. why do you believe his character seemed unassailable when you knew him? >> caller: wie hy do i think? i have no idea. >> no, why do you think he had good character? what was it about his character that you thought made him a solid person? >> caller: well, you know, let me just say this, you know. i learned that -- from him, that he was chechen because i asked him what was the origin of his name, you know. he said chechen.

i said how did you survive and so forth and so on. he said you just bear down, you do what you've got to do. he was so grateful to be here. he was so grateful to be at the school. he was so grateful to be accepted. he really was compassionate, he was jovial. it was nothing like this at all. he was forthcoming. he was a lovely, lovely kid. this is, you know, people are -- you get people that say oh, i know him. he's not capable of this. that's what i'm saying to you. i am just one of those people -- i'm not trying to protect or cover up. this is what i know him to be, you know. he was a wonderful kid. we're proud of him. you know, he was an outstanding athlete. he was -- there was nothing -- you know, he was never a

troublemaker in the school. he was never in trouble in this school, you know. he was just joyful -- >> when is the last full-time you spoke to him? when was the last time you spoke to him and what was going on in his life. >> caller: last time i spoke to him, he was walking up the street and i think he was going back to school. he was on a semester break or something like that. and i said oh, i forgot you live right next to me. i forgot all about that, you know. and he said, yeah, yeah. and i said which one of these places is yours? and he pointed out to me. and i said where are you now? and he said he was going to -- he was in school. i can't remember where he told me, he was going to school. and i said dzhokhar, are you wrestling? he said no, i'm not wrestling. i'm sort of giving up and bearing down on my studies. >> and was that this spring? or was that, when you say -- was it this year? >> caller: no, no, no. it was this year.

it was like sometime between thanksgiving and christmas. i'm trying to think. i don't remember, but it was this year, right. and i -- it could have been even more recently because he said he was on, what i remember, is he said he was on his break. he was going back to school, right. and i think he said he was getting in his brother's car and going. so he was happy to share this. excuse me, me phone is ringing off the hook, as you can imagine. >> you know, look. there's a lot of desperation to understand. yes, i hear, there's a lot of desperation. thank you for the window of insight into this young man. i appreciate you taking the opportunity to talk to cnn. >> again, these are individual people with individual impressions based on very, very small slices of someone's life. but, very interesting that he talked to him within just the passed few months and he's giving the impression of this young man, which matches the impression from others a year or

two back. again, doing casually, neighbor, as i said, small slice of life. but it matches what we've seen before: and we said when could he have been radicalized or completely compartmentalized for his life. >> all right. let me -- you know want, i wish we could answer your question, but we both know i can. tom, you've seen so many of these scenarios. everybody is saying he was a sweet kid. he was doing all of the right things. he was grateful to be here. grateful to have gotten away from the war. how do you reconcile that with someone who wound up where he is right now. >> i don't think you can, chris. i think the people that you're talking to on the air seem to be completely honest and sincere about what they saw or what their relationship was with him. that he had that personality. and suddenly, somewhere along the line, it changes. and, as i said, i don't know if maybe the big brother was the

one that finally led him astray and the last person you talked to on the phone says after they left, he got in the car with his big brother. and this was just a couple months ago. so maybe somehow, the brother was able to influence him and he just had the kind of personality that made him weak and susceptible to whatever the brother had to do and he went along with it. although, the demeanor that he had in those -- >> tom, i just wanted to ask you, when we talked to someone who talked to him just a few months ago and such experience profielti in profiling him, is it possible that someone could appear as a very normal person in all respects as it could be defined by people in this area and completely compartmentalize someone of such radicalization? >> it happens. many times, we get the report, oh, you know, the person was reclusive or weird or something wrong with them. but there are many times when

neighbors or even family members say no, he seemed perfectly fine. he seemed great. i don't know what happened. i don't know what tripped him or you don't know if he was already like that in his inner thoughts and it just hadn't manifested himself in front of other people where he was trying to get along. >> all right, tom fuentes, thank you. >> we're going to bring someone else in mow, lnow. let's bring in phil maldese. phil, let me ask you something. we're dealing with this paradox right now. we have seen it in other cases. everybody is saying good things about this person. not defending the suspect, but just saying as i knew him, good character, great athlete.

and then he winds up here, the worst of character. how do we put the two together? >> there's not a paradox. this is a tradition in terrorism. looking for example at 9/11 or the jihad attacks in london. you have clusters of kids who bounce off of each other. in this case, we have two kids who happened to be brothers where over probably or perhaps a relatively short period of time, they persuaded each other that what happened in this closed circle was right. now one of these kids is 26 the other is 19. in the cases that i've looked at, you often have an older brother figure to persuade a youth to go into the movement. i believe the older brother told the younger brother what we're going to do is okay. >> but how is that consistent with character? that's the part we have to get people to understand, including one of the two, at least.

how can you be a good person and a terrible person at the same time? is the gap fill in that in your head what you believe to be right and wrong? >> what you're doing is what we call an analysis mirror imaging. you're assuming the world looks like what you think it should look. where they're coming from is the world is the united states is intervening in places they shouldn't intervene. from their optic, this is perfectly logical. so it's not inconsistent with being a good person. they would say our responsibility is not just to talk about this, it's to do something about this. and they did. >> i'm just looking heefr. we're going to be joined by another friend of dzhokhar in just a moment. a conversation they had about terrorism where, again, it's going to say completely normal in all respects. but a conversation where it's not wrong, there's something right about it. and maybe that was referring to

some sort of fundamental belief in the cause or what it said. >> i think that's -- there are simple justifications among the people i chased for 20 years. and that is they will say, look, i've seen images from places like ghaza, afghanistan or iraq where women are raped and children are killed. it's not necessarily large cells of people who would commit acts of terrorism. it's people who would then break away and say everybody else is talking, i'm going to do something about it. >> phil, thank you very much. we'll come back when we have some more details. look, right now, you just don't know. it's part of the frustration of covering this, part of the frustration of dealing with it at home. there's tremendous manpower on the ground here in boston. the reason they're locking down

the city is for safety. it's not for a sense of disadvantage. they have tons of manpower. they have been closing the circle on this individual. they have to be very careful because of the role of explosives in this situation. >> they don't want to have a mistake. when you get to the end of this, they don't want to have a mistake. the president is being briefed right now on what's happening. breanna is at the white house right now. >> reporter: this is a briefing, erin and chris, on the situation this boston and watertown, according to a white house official. it's taking place as we speak. this is currently under way that's taking place in the situation room. so, obviously, a very high level of security. some of participants are there in person, most of them are, some of them are there on video conference. a rather large group of officials and the white house administration. in addition, the president's homeland security and counter terrorism advisor, lisa montago,

you have a number of other national security staff, tom donnel. this is something we didn't know by video conference includes the homeland secretary. so it's rather a packed house for this meeting currently under way in the situation room on the situation in boston and watertown, massachusetts. >> you guys, you know that he's been briefed overnight, over the last night, by his homeland security advisor, lisa monaco, being kept up to date on this evolving situation. this is the case all week that he's been briefed and frequently in the morning with his f.b.i. director and his attorney general. this is obviously an expanded group. we're still waiting to see exactly how the white house administration is going to be responding to this. right now, the f.b.i. is very much in control of things.

right now, i think we're not going to see any substantive reaction to what's going on until it comes to more of a conclusion and the dust settles in what's really this currently evolving, very quick situation. >> thank you. >> we're going to reset here, in case you're joining us right now, there's been a massive turn in the investigation here in boston. i'm chris quomo joined by erin burnett here. this is what we know. a remarkable series of developments in the search for the terrorists behind the boston marathon bombings. right now, a massive man hunt is under way for this suspect. he's a 19-year-old man and authorities are circling in on him. if you are in boston, you're cautioned to stay at home. contact police if you see this man. they say he's on the run, extremely dangerous and may have explosives. overnight, his brother was killed in a shootout with police. both men are muslim and from

southern russia. at this point, we have no reason to believe that their religion has anything to do with intentionality. the man hunt is going on in and around boston. the intensity and sheer scale is unlike anything this nation has ever seen before. the entire city of boston and its suburbs is shut down this morning for safety reasons. take a listen. >> and the governor has immediately suspended all public transportation service on the mvtba system. so all public transit services through the mbta have been immediately suspended. >> now, right now, the search has centered around the town of watertown. we're not showing a live picture of that because we've been asked by authorities not to reveal tactical positions. but it has been treated like a combat zone. thousands of heavily armed police going door-to-door.

buss have been brought in to evacuate people. that's the urgency to which this is being done. on the left of your screen, you will see watertown, where the search is focused. if you look to the right, that's where this began. the campus of m.i.t., just across the river. overnight, a university police officer was killed. and a motorist carjack. that's what started all of this. we had no idea that this was going to be is suspects. the suspects opened fired, even threw homemade grenades. take a listen to the shootout. >> we thought we heard fire crackers. me and my son looked out our third floor window. we heard gunshots and then we saw the explosion.

i actually saw a black suv come down laurel street, cross over dexter. it looked like it hit a police car. and then they were just shooting at that and just loaded with that. we must have heard about 60 gunshots. >> what was that explosion like? >> it was pretty loud. it shook our house. obviously, that is an impression from somebody who has witnessed -- the suspect on the left, if you're able to see him, he was killed in the shootout. he apparently had explosives strapped to him and somehow may have detonated. sources warn that the man on the right is rigged with similar exploes is. that's why there's such an abundance of caution going on right now. >> i want to bring inneric micaddo now. eric, you were a friend of the younger suspect, dzhokhar. you seem to know a lot about him. begin with telling us when you knew him.

>> i knew him in high school. >> you graduated a year ago? >> 2010. >> so he was a year younger. >> a year younger, so he graduated in 2011. the grades were a mess. we went back and forth and parties and normal things that teenagers would partake in. that's kind of how i got to know dzhokhar. >> and you knew him pretty well? you've seen him a lot? >> yeah, in high school. i won't say i've seen him recently. probably the last time i saw him was in the last year or so. >> okay. so you said that you had a conversation. i want to talk a little bit more about what you did together, but, also, one conversation where you recall terrorism came up. >> right, it wasn't me, per se, who had the conversation. but it was a friend of mine who called this morning had alerted me to a conversation that he had had with dzhokhar. and it was along the lines of, you know, terrorism is, when justified, you know, isn't

necessari necessarily, you know, a bad thing. which, you know, kind of red flags in your head, okay, if he's having those kind of conversations and the events that have, you know, since happened, it would lead you to believe that something in his head is, you know -- >> he's having a conversation in his head that terrorism isn't a bad thing? >> right, when justified. not anything that, you know, would lead me to believe that he would believe it's okay. i can't really say. i just know that that was a conversation that was had. and in that conversation, you know, obviously, you know, my friends were kind of alert ed, like, well, you know. and people say, you know, things all of the time. and it's never -- you don't take it out of context, it is a conversation at the time. and you don't believe anybody is going to be a terrorist because of those comments. >> so in the past day, when you

and your friends started watching television and you saw that picture on the screen, did friends call the f.b.i.? did you say i know that guy? how did you all figure out that it's the guy that you know? >> well, i mean, the name -- the name, itself, when given, it confirmed it for us. the hat was a signature, turned backwards on his head, always. >> so you saw the video before the name came out and the baseball cap being backwards you said that looks like -- >> it was kind of a joke amongst friends. oh, that's dzhokhar. >> but you didn't believe it was. >> right. no one wants to believe that their friend from high school is a "terrorist." or is a terrorist. nobody wants to believe that kind of thing. >> i appreciate the information. >> yes, we appreciate you taking the time. it's obviously not easy when you knew someone to imagine this. but thank you. >> we're going to get back to this developing situation. let's go to one of the reporters out in the field.

deb, what's the latest? >> reporter: yeah, we saw so much activity going on early this morning. more than a thousand members of law enforcement who were here. they were focused on the home just a block from me. they had people on top of the roof, they had people who were staging the entire area. everybody was dressed in tactical gear, s.w.a.t. gear as they approached that building. we're still waiting for word on what specifically was inside. a number of canines were brought in, as well. the law enforcement pulled out and now what's going on is that we saw some friends of teens pull in. so they're in that facility, in the bill iuilding, in the home. we believe it's just in front of what looks like a garage, an automotive garage, there's a little sign up there, they're inside that home now. and they are looking for clues or possible evidence. so this is unfoling ve ingunfol quickly. we do know that the older

brother, the 26-year-old, he was found to be wearing some sort of explosives. he had some sort of a trigger on him, as well. you have to keep in mind that he was killed, once he was dead, inves ginvestigators stripped hm in place. you don't want to bring a person to the hospital if that person is wearing wh ining ining what some sort of explosive device. they're not a hundred percent sure, but they do believe they're getting closer. this is moving very, very quickly. they're reaching out, investigators are, to friends, to associates, to people who are coming on the radar who this young man may have had contact with over the last couple of weeks or over the last couple of months. it's very likely that we're going to see more activity throughout the course of the day as investigators make their way following leads and trying to figure out exactly who is who

and where this person is. chris? >> thank you very much, deb. we apreesh yalt it. >> all right, we're going to take a break now. we're going to put up on the screen the man police are looking for. if you see this face, do nothing yourself. alert authorities. and if you are watching, police believe the suspect may, if you have any decency that your friends described back when they knew you, it's time to turn yourself in. we'll be back after the break. mr. wiggles and curling irons. for the little mishaps you feel, use neosporin to help you heal. it kills germs so you heal four days faster neosporin. also try neosporin eczema essentials. how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed: the official retirement age.

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>> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. >> and our coverage continues of the man hunt for suspect number 2. a 19-year-old young man. the man hunt is on going here in boston. as we said, a lockdown of a city like anything ever seen before in this country. we want to get the latest on intelligence of exactly where he is and what authorities are looking for. barbara starr has been doing that at the pentagon this morning. barbara? >> reporter: good morning, erin and chris. the u.s. law enforcement and intelligence community here in washington, now going back this morning, through every piece of intelligence they have looking for any information about these two suspects. until yesterday, until the identification came out, officials had told us they just didn't see any foreign connection.

they weren't sure, but they didn't see anything. now that they have the identities on these two suspects and they have some sense of their background, they are going back through everything. that means intelligence reports, phone intercepts, chatter, jihadists' web sielts. anything and everything. they are looking at their social media postings for any connections they may have to overseas groups. now, they don't have any firm conclusions at this point. but what is so significant here is now, as of this morning, they are, indeed, looking to see if these two men had any connections to overseas groups, frankly, to overseas terrorism. no conclusion about that yet. we want to emphasize that very strongly. basically, officials tell us there are three possibilities here. a domestic terrorism incident, something backed by a foreign group or these two men in the united states potentially

inspired, if you will, by some political cause or some overseas group. so they're looking at all of it. but, now, that they have their identities, full-blown review by the u.s. intelligence and law enforcement community going back through everything they have. erin? chris? >> all right, barbara, thank you very much. so the big question is here is what changed in these two men to turn them into killers and bombers. that's what we're trying to figure out this morning as our authorities, ivan watson is with us on the phone right now. he knows both brothers. ivan, can you hear us? >> reporter: i can hear you. what we're hearing is a little bit more about the background of these two brothers, chris. i've spoken with an official from the central asian former roots soviet republic that these brothers both had passports from

kyrgyzstan when they got their green cards that allowed them to emigrate to the u.s. now, this becomes a tangled story. they described themselves to their friends, to their neighbors as natives of chechnya, another russian republic torn apart by war during the 1990s. evidently, they left that area because of the gruesome conflict there and ended up in kyrgyzstan before they moved on to the u.s. as far as how long ago they left that central asian republic, i talked to one of the leaders of the ethnic chechen community in kyrgyzstan and he said that we have not seen anybody from the tsarnaev family in more than ten years. so whatever happened seems to have taken place while they were in the u.s. one other tidbit, just to give you an indicator of how deep their roots were in the u.s., we know that the eldest brother, dzhokhar -- i'm sorry,

tamerlan, he competed in the golden gloves boxing championship in salt lake city in 2009. chris? >> thank you very much. that's helpful information in term that is they've been here for a long time. there seems to be no real connection back to where they came from. so whatever happened with these two, seems to be it happened here. >> i want to bring in jim walsh now. he's a professor at m.i.t. you know, your office, jim, is right next to where this went down last night as we were watching building 32 at that time, we had absolutely no idea -- no one had any idea that this would be linked to the two brothers of the boston marathon bombing. what is it like on campus right now? it must have been a real shock. >> well, certainly, to put this into some context, i went to bed last night having learned from m.i.t. that a person who works where i work, was slain, and then i woke up this morning, one

street over from watertown, massachusetts, the middle class suburb next to cambridge, across the river from boston, to the sound of helicopters and sirens and instructions to keep our doors locked. i have since traveled -- i'm not on campus now, i'm at a studio here in watertown, which is ground zero for the police outside. there are more than a dozen satellite trucks. as i was pulling up, they stopped my car. i let them do their business. they were going house-by-house, checking the small side street that is near the studio that i'm currently sitting in. so all of this has descended really, really close to home for me. a fellow employee at my university is dead. and a neighbor where i once owned a house in and where i speak to you from now, people are locked indoors and there are

police everywhere. >> jim, it seems like a transformative moment and, of course, a tragic one. it's someone you worked with that makes it personal on a level that many of us can only try to fathom. what is the campus like today. i mean, everything around where we are, basically, is empty. the only cars that we see going by are basically law enforcement officials because the city is in such lockdown. >> yeah, i think that's true. i think that's true for all of cambridge and true for belmont and watertown, where i am now. oddly, a couple weeks ago, we had a hoax where someone called in and reported seeing a gunman. and the police swarmed in. that was a hoax. but one of the consequences of that hoax was m.i.t. did an assessment of emergency communications and its preparedness. one has to think that in someway, sadly, that helped prepare the university for what took place last night.

i got instant e-mails from the university and from my colleagues in political science and elsewhere with instructions to stay home. you know, let me step back for a minute, erin and chris and also someone who's been on tv talking about this international security perspective. i must say i was surprised by what happened today. everyone is. but what makes it more surprising is we just posted the president of the united states yesterday. and -- at that church service. and when i was on talking last night, one of the conclusions that i drew from that, by inference, was that there's no way that they would allow the president of the united states to travel to boston unless they had fairly high confidence that either the people committed these crimes were gone or not, you know, still posing a danger to the greater boston area. so i think we're going to have to add some questions going

forward about what law enforcement knew and how it is that the president of the united states flew into a city when these two young men still had explosives and were still only hours away from committing other crimes. >> so you're saying that you think they may have known more than they were telling us at the time? or you're surprised at the decision that they made given they didn't know where they were. >> i'm not positive or assuming anything. but i do think it's odd. so i'm asking the question. i'm sure there's a good answer, but it would be interesting to know what the assessment, the danger of risk assessment it was yesterday in the decision to bring the president to boston if only because these two gentlemen were here and continued to -- they've killed another person, they killed an m.i.t. police officer and, obviously, have used explosives, you know, within 12 hours of having the president visit. so i'm just putting that out as something -- you know, we're going to go back and look at a lot of this stuff. and everyone is going to be able

to do a better job, right? the media is going to do a better job, there have been small mistakes every day. analysts can do a better job, i've made mistakes. i would like to understand the logic of that decision. >> i want to bring jullianne into the conversation. what do you think about what jim is saying? >> it's a big city and the president has a very, very competent secret service. to not have him come to the memorial service would have been, i think, premature. we had no idea where these people were. and, you know, he can be secure and still have two people on the loose. who knows what they knew at what stage. but if there was any risk, you'd just have to assume that no one is going to put the president at risk. i think want's really interesting about what's come out so far, from what i can tell, they've spent most of their time here. they spent most of their time in cambridge. so this idea of radicalization occurring occurred, if it did,

occurred here. or it didn't occur. in other words, this was something else. it was madmen, it was all sorts of things. and so we had this debate of whether terrorism or not, and i think we're seeing the consequences of being able to wait and see what, in fact, these -- what was animating these two that they're chechn n chechnyan, yes, we know that. but they spent most of their time here, a lot of their time here. they're muslim; we don't know how devout. is that the remaining factor? maybe not. >> when you say we're debating whether it easter riches ter's someone blows bombs up at a marathon, that easter richl. if you want to bring a case against them, we really don't care what their motivation is. they killed people. and they wreaked havoc on a city. if you want to bring a case, let's assume we're going to have

a live defendant, and that's a big assumption right now, you want to bring a case that's strong. and the best case so far, you want to call it terrorism, but, you know, it's a murder case. >> your questions are so on, erin. it gets a little complicated because it starts to leave the world of legal sense and move onto legalese. >> and i think one of the consequences of that in a post-9/11 world is that we, meaning me, too, tend to view terrorism as he kuwaequated to on a plane. those links are absolutely not provable at this stage. so the word, terrorism, we use it as sort of a catch-all. and what we see now is a bunch of people who might be motivated by some theory of al-qaida who

might be motivated by something else, who might be delusional, who spent a lot of time in the united states doing something really, really bad, their motivation is less. >> one of the people watching the coverage right now is you hear somebody was good, did good things, and you can't reconcile that with them being the worst of people. and it's not as simple as saying, well, that's human nature. people have different sides. explain it as part of your area of exper teesz. why do those two things go together often? >> i think people are complicated and people's persona tends to be very different than the quiet side of people. there's a wonderful book about the columbine killers. we have an image of them as being dark guys in trench coats who everyone hated. the truth is one of them was incredibly popular. the other one, all the parents loved him. we get these images of people and sociopaths, killers,

murders, come in all shapes, sizes and creeds. that's what's happening today. i know it seems sort of overwhelming, but, so, you know, people are inside so that law enforcement can do what they want to do. hopefully, it ends relatively soon. it's daytime. >> it's interesting, when you talk about what appears to be a real contradiction, in terms of the younger suspect, as we're learning more about the boy on the run. but what i'm trying to understand is when you look at the profile of these kinds of people, we're trying to find ways so that this doesn't happen again. these people have done things successfully in this country that has never been done successfully before. and one of the terrifying thoughts is we may never understand why. if you can't understand why, how are you going to identify people that may possibly do this again? >> you bring up a great point. you're just touching on how much more difficult it is to find this kind of threat. we say home grown, you know, it

just generally means one or two or three affiliated people with the grand plan. they don't leave trails. they're not talking on phones to each other. it is harder for intelligence to do. unfortunately, we have to accept that fact. . one other thing, you know, as i teach on this, 9/11 didn't create terrorism. it didn't start then. it didn't end then. we have always had people doing very bad things in this nation, and, of course, throughout the world. that this hasn't happened since 9/11 is sort of also pretty remarkab remarkab remarkable, right? so putting it in context is hard right now. we're all really anxious. i can't get home. and is we're all really anxious. once we put it in context and we say okay, this is probably the way things might look for a while. >> all right, julliette, thank you very much. >> right now, take a look on your -- on your screen right now, you're seeing a live picture from where we have deborah feric. guns are being drawn.

there's heightened activity from police there. do we have deb? is she able to talk to us right no? all right. we'll get her when we can. i hope she's staying safe with her crew. there's been an increase in activities here. we're only showing the pictures that authorities are comfortable with. we're going to monitor this situation -- deb is on the phone. deb wharks's the explanation of what we're seeing right now? >> reporter: just really, within the last 30 seconds, a number of cars pulled back into the area where we are. a lot of people -- the police are telling the press to pull back. but we do know that guns are drawn. they're going into a location. there's a lot of chaos. there's a lot of screaming and yelling. we are told that we have to be very careful. this this kid, if he's in there, may want to go out with a blaze of glory. they are pushing members of the media back. everybody get back, get down.

we've got, obviously, according to some intel people that we're speaking to, they're telling us that this kid may want to go out in a blaze of glory. what they're doing is they're trying to flush this person out. they don't know where he is. again, let me just put the phone out the window so you can listen. >> reporter: so you can hear it a little bit. but we're pulling out. we're pulling out. we're going back. let's go. hold on. we're kind of right in the middle of everything, guys. we're going to move this truck. but we're going to come back to you. we're going to come back to you. >> all right, that's the right idea. do what the police are telling you. get to safety and call us back. >> reporter: okay. >> all right. good. she's got to get back to her

crew where they're safe. we are feeding this video with a 5-second delay. it's another consideration because we don't know what's going to unfold on camera. >> that's right. we want to make sure you all understand that's what we're doing and why we're doing it. we're going to keep this picture upright now. it's been a couple of times this morning where we have seen intense ak tichlty here. obviously, the entire city is under lockdown. and there has been a few neighborhoods where there's been a high police presence. but this is the one where there's been the most so far. >> i got a note from investigators that one of the challenges in this particular area -- this is a lot of dense housing. so one of the particular challenges in this area is that they may think they have the right place. but there could be eight or ten different buildings that they have to go through to find what they're looking for right now. so, again, this is live picture. five-second delay. an we're waiting for debating to get to a safe position where the authorities feel they're comfortable with her. >> there is also police activity where dom lemon is.

so, don, what activity are you seeing happening? >> reporter: we saw all of the police presence that had once told deb to pullout. and there you see some of the guys coming in and out. where ever this happening here, we can hear it and we can see it. and it's in that perimeter that we told you about just a little bit earlier. we said hey, listen, over here, this is where they're zeroing in on something going on. this is where the helicopter has been circling, has been oshlting and then the orbit gets tiegtser and tighter and tighter which leads us to believe, just as laymen, that something is going on in that area. we can hear -- we can't see, obviously we're on the ground. but some of the officers went in. the first couple went in with sirens. i would imagine that they said hey, no sirens. just go in with flashing lights: and then the next round of officers that went in, just went in with flashing lights, no noise. probably not to give any indication that they're on the

way to stir up any fear or what have you. the same thing that deb said, that they're being told by officers, they're being told by people, hey, be careful. early this morning, when i first got to the scene, three boston police officers said hey, don, be careful. be careful because this guy feels like a trapped animal. we have so many resources on this. if you had this many people looking for you, you would be paranoid. if you were in this particular situation, they're worried that this guy will go out in a blaze of glory and feel trapped and come out shooting. they say listen, we know he has explosives. threw him out of the car in a police chase. we know he has rifles. again, those rifles can go very far. i would tell you and your buddies in the media to be safe, even though you're in a perimeter. i'm just being honest what they're telling us here. we can hear the activity.

we can see the resources. the officers, the tactical units, the s.w.a.t. teams going into the other locations. and we're also monitoring it on our upon tors here. we can see what's happening. they're telling the media in that particular area to get back. get back. get back. and when they say that to us, we do exactly what those officers tell us. but we know it's happening here in watertown. this is the center of it. this is the last place that suspect was seen. not more than ten minutes ago, at the convenience store down just next to where i am. an officer came in and said we believe he's in this area, don. because this is the last place he was seen that give us the street, they gave us an intersection. we won't specifically go into that. they're also, concerned, too, because they're getting reports, they said, on their scanners. and, again, this is from an officer, on their scanner that this guy is after them. he's ticked off that they killed his brother, that his brother, somehow, died in the confrontation this morning.

and that he is going after police officers. they believe, again, af cording to police, this is not cnn reporting, i want to preface that. they believe that he has a laptop with him and he's sending out messages to social media. again, that's according to officers. not from any reports that i have gotten myself specifically. but they are concerned that he is going to go after police officers and put police officers in the cross hair because he is so upset about what happened to his brother this morning. strangely, you know, he killed three people and injured 183 others and he's upset about his brother. again, we can hear where they are. we can't see them. so we can see them going to that particular location. okay? back to you guys. >> don? >> all right, thanks, don. deb, can you hear us? deborah, can you hear us?

>> deb, can you hear us? >> this is the shot where deborah is right now. this is her camera. there's been a lot of police activity. she was told to move back by authorities. she did so. >> i can hear you. there's a lot of concern. there's something very worrisome to police that's going on right now. we've heard over the radio that they're calling for a russian interpreter. there are some reports i'm being told that, in fact, they may have found the car that was carjacked. all i can say is they are treating this as a very high level incident here. one person i spoke to said one of the dangers is if you can see the car, you can see the bomb, the bomb can see you.

you've got to be very aware of that. >> obviously, the premium is on your safety. listen to the officers. get where you need to be. the shots will come when they come. stay safe. >> interesting what she's reporting. again, we are including all of you watching in what we are hearing and what our rorlters are hearing from the police. she's saying that they requested a russian translator. i can confirm to you that the boston police have said that there's a request for a car being placed in evidence. so these are the pieces of information that we have right now. again, an elevated police officer just a moment ago. again, elevated police presence once again in watertown which is where there was a big scramble earlier this morning. they could be interviewing people other than the suspect.

they could be calling for an interpreter because they're dealing with someone other than him. so the call for an interpreter may not necessarily be for the suspect. we're going to have to learn as we're going along. we're showing you the picture. alleged allegedly, he was the boston marathon bomber. his brother has been shot and killed. they believe that he may have explosives on him. that's why they believe there's this abundance of caution for glass range. we're feeding video to you with a delay just in case something does happen. >> a 5-second delay. there is -- and we're going to keep showing you the shot. this is where deborah is in watertown. as soon as we can get deb back, we will. you can just hope that one of these is going to lead to the final show down and that it's going to end with the suspect

being taken alive. apprehended alive. >> juliette was saying change can happen very quickly. human nature is very complicated. people can get ideas and believe that they're going to act and see a sense of glory without being related to any type of organization that we would traditionally identify with terrorism. we have joe johns who's following this situation down in washington. do we have joe? are we able to get him up? >> i am here. >> i'm going to try to get joe johns. i hear you, joe. thank you for being with us. what are you hearing down there in terms of official information? >> we're not hearing a lot of official information. and i have to tell you, there's been a lot of radio silence, among -- at least some of those law enforcement officials in washington you see deferring to the authorities in boston on the ground there.

while we're waiting for some more information, i just want to reset on how we got to where we are right now. authorities told us that there was some type of convenience store robbery late last night. there was also the murder of an m.i.t. police officer which got authorities interested. but i can tell you as of 11:53 last night, authorities were drawing no connection between the marathon bombing case and what was going on at m.i.t. there was some time after that, a carjacking, a vehicle was carjacked, and authorities started getting real interested in these series of events. these individuals they have been looking for apparently told the driver of the vehicle that was carjack carjacked that they had actually been the bombers at the marathon.

and sometime after that one of the two individuals got outside the car. shots were fired and that individual, apparently, was hit. and then we're told the other suspect ran over his brother with the car. kept going. they discovered that the guy who was killed was wearing some type of an explosive. apparently, an ied. so, then, authorities went in to full alert. realizing they had a situation where one suspect was wearing an explosive. thought that the other suspect could, as well, be wearing an explosive. the chase was on. authorities started going door-to-door, checking on the welfare of individuals. and that's how the entire city of boston, eventually, came to be locked down.

that's where we are now. i've said to you before, there are tons of questions in this case. when you consider the fact that there was a very carefully-planned bombing at the boston marathon, but after that, everything seems to have gotten thrown up in the air. they certainly didn't plan an escape very well at all. that's where we find ourselves right now. >> joe, we want to add to this conversation. please don't go anywhere. we're monitoring here a five-second delay. our deborah feric is there. as soon as we can get her on camera, she gets more information, we're going to bring her to you. the latest is a big and sudden increase in the police presence there, on the scanner, a request for an interpreter who speaks russian.

that is the latest that we have. tom fuentes, let me just add you into the conversation. this is the second time this happened in watertown. it appears to us that this 19-year-old young man is in a few-block-radius of this area. or is it possible that they're unsure and he could be somewhere else? >> well, i think it's possible that he could be somewhere else. but the probability is he's in that area and would have stayed close to some type of support group, whether it's his own apartment or aunts or uncles or some other type of relatives. as far as asking for the interpreter, chris is right. they're americanized kids, fluent in english. you heard the one clas mate say hey, he's as american as i am. i don't quite think that, but, certainly, he doesn't need an interpreter. but they might be trying to get entry to search a relative's house who needs an interpreter and they may be asking for that thinking that he may h